saginaw m1 carbine markingssaginaw m1 carbine markings

They were located in different cities. Others report they've had no problems with theirs. The carbine cost less than both of the available replacements at the time and it also physically neededless material to produce and operatethan the heavier Thompson and Garand with their larger rounds. At that time the current small armsissued were either too heavy and bulky or, in the case of the M1911 pistol, limited in range. serial numbers concurrent to receivers being made by the prime contractor and/or other subcontractors assigned lower or higher serial number blocks. Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. -The 2nd model (1944-??) Caveat Emptor! No collection is and forward end of the chamber is critical. 9. Both were Divisions of General Motors. Many manufacturers placed the month and year the barrel was manufactured directly below the manufacturers mark. paper and placed within an outer wrap for protection during long term storage. The M1 Garand, World War II: History of Development and Production, 1900 through 2 September 1945. WebThere were 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. Most were of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased. Some manufacturers rounded the edges at the front of barrel, a few cut them flat. Our selections of interesting militaria auctions are viewed by thousands of collectors from around the world each month. The percentage of rejects presented a significant problem resulting in the time required to correct the issues or return the barrels to the Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. The Carbine Collectors Club. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. government paid the prime contractor per carbine was adjusted to reflect the cost of the barrel the government provided. All things being equal, the value of an original carbine is greater than even the best restoration. used internally by companies with meanings known only to that company. The U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. with marks other than a P sometimes found in this location. The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. After WWII it was not uncommon for M1 Carbines to be converted to select Saginaw Steering Gear in nearby Saginaw, MI was already engaged in the preparation for Used early in production. Barrels manufactured by Brown-Lipe-Chapin and used by Inland typically do not have the quantity present Thank you. It equipped from then on the units of support and support (transmission, artillery, transport, ). TABLE H Inland Manufacturing Although Saginaw Steering and Gear only produced 8.46% of M1 Carbines(including variants) during WWII it was the 4th largest maker andexemplified the ability of current manufactures to switch over to war production quickly and remain nimble during the course of production . Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. WebSaginaw of Saginaw, MI International Business Machines All barrel manufacturers under contract to U.S. Army Ordnance marked their barrels with either their name or manufacturers mark. You sir have seemed to have done a lot of research on the history of each manufacture. Operation: Semi-automatic by gas borrowing As compared to Canfield's book on carbines, only the front sight and front barrel band appear to be incorrect 'by the book'. barrels made by others, while within ordnance specifications, were sometimes at the other end of the allowances provided by the specifications and wouldn't fit and demands on a daily basis and initiating the logistics of getting barrels to where they were needed most. The plant had been established in 1942for the expressed purpose of building M1 Carbines by Robert W. Irwin, a furniture manufacturer, and John D. Pedersen a commercial firearms designer (5, p.141-143). *Post Reserved in case I run out of space*. Ordnance facility post WWII and/or after the Korean War, sometimes involving a complete overhaul that stripped the carbine and rebuilt it from different parts. Use of a headspace gauge is pretty simple and straight forward. the weapon is fired. The M2 stocks were often used as replacement stocks for the M1's. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) There are a variety of reasons things may have been changed or simply ignored. annual growth rings, giving Birch a somewhat dull, uniform appearance. be confused with BI marked barrels manufactured by Brown-Lipe-Chapin for Inland (see below). Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. Between 1941 and 1945, more than 6 million USM1 rifles were produced by 12 different contractors. Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine,ifthe fact it has been restored is passed along to a subsequent purchaser and the weapon is priced accordingly. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. Others have added markings to some to make them appear to have been accepted Originally it was planned to equip the USM1 with a firing selector (semi-auto, full-auto). Manufacturers sometimes used symbols on the bottom of the barrel between the receiver and gas cylinder for A wide indention in the wood in this area found on a carbine with a narrow barrel band is another definite indication that the stock in question had the later type of barrel band installed at one time. B & P Motor Company for Inland Mfg., not Brown-Lipe-Chapin. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. Examples of spare barrels proof marked with the P by the barrel manufacturer and again with the Irwin-Pedersen Numbers Reassigned to Saginaw at Grand Rapids. If these are stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks. The letter P was also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance. By the beginning of 1943 it had become clear This isnt to say that there is anything wrong with such a piece, but if someone is looking for an original WWII carbine, they need to keep looking. departments within Inland over the years of production. On the inside it has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood to strengthen the stock. The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. To avoid having to cross out the original manufacturer's name and retype the final manufacturer's name, the housings were marked 'Un-Quality'. Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. Inland, Winchester, Underwood, National Postal Meter, Quality Hardware, IBM, Saginaw (Michigan, Grand Rapids), Standard Products, Rock-Ola, Irwin-Pedersen, Commercial Controls. Except for very early Inlands, virtually all carbines were stamped on the right side of the stock with the familiar crossed cannons Ordnance Department escutcheon.

It's listed with Inland. Print. Although Saginaw Steering and Gear only produced 8.46% of M1 Carbines(including variants) during WWII it was the 4th largest maker and exemplified the ability of current manufactures to switch over to war production quickly and remain nimble during the course of production . 6. The outer wrap was labeled with the information on the contents. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? Sometimes when the barrel fails the "No Go" and "Field" Gauges, replacing the bolt may In fact, some manufacturers have supplied other manufacturers with breech housings. Carbines having any other letter(s) on the receiver are beyond the scope of the information on this particular page. Therefore, a carbine made by any of the other firms will not have barrels made by the same company that produced the receiver. Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of serial numbers. Gas cylinders were manufactured by one of two methods. TABLE H Inland Manufacturing These receivers were purchased by Winchester. In World War Two the United States Military saw the benefitfor a carbine in its ranks to better suit the needs of troops. Believe it indicates Camp Stanley in San Antonio. Counter-Bored to repair crown. spagg Member 749 Location: Arizona Author #11 Posted August 25, 2020 On 8/24/2020 at 5:30 PM, ccyooper said: Saginaw stamped on the barrel flat. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1 with some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). Web7/10/20 - This is a rare Saginaw Gear (S'G' or S-Prime, G-Prime) M1 Carbine from early 1944. Serial is 1,870,482 with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the receiver. Riesch, Craig. They may be located: The Flaming Ordnance Bomb was commonly used by Ordnance inspectors to indicate a particular part had been examined and passed inspection. PA 19301. If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored. After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered. proof of this inspection to be stamped into the right side of the buttstock. The crossed cannons escutcheon on the right side and other government markings should be present, albeit often faint from years of wear. Though on the surface this seemed to be a good balanced partnership that would produce carbines, in a year they had produced less than 3,000 unitsand none of them hadpassed inspection with the Ordnance Department. under the supervision of the inspector." Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. This also aligns the barrel On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary Other rear echelon troops far from the action such as Military Police were also issued the gun allowing more front-line infantryman to use Garands and Thompsons. Herlo's contract was for two barrel assemblies: NSN 3110-00-844-8416 Barrel Assembly, Carbine, hard chrome plated bore. Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. Bayonet, two magazine pouches, three magazines, flash hider, Wood has been refinished. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. If the bolt is replaced the headspace should be checked again. A short time after its introduction Chief of Ordnance, Major General L. H. Campbell Jr., wroteReports coming in from all jungle theaters indicate that the carbine is going to be a most useful weapon due to its light weight, small overall length, and the light weight ammunition. and/or Ordnance inspectors assigned to a particular manufacturer as the use of the Flaming Ordnance Bomb was specific to certain manufacturers. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. Quality Hardware was the first of these companies to become a prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. One manufacturer separated out smaller blocks of serial numbers for use by subcontractors who would use these requires each be assessed individually to determine its historical significance. due to a lack of original documentation. If a receiver has its original barrel and the Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. Each was individually wrapped in protective Barrel length is measured from the rear edge of the skirt to the forward edge of the muzzle. WebDescription: Saginaw M1 Carbine Ser# 3603858, barrel markings Saginaw SG / General Motors, 1944 time period, overall great shape , shinny bore with great riflings. Barrels and receivers manufactured under contract to U.S. Army Ordnance have alignment